Ryan Gottfredson — organizational psychologist, leadership researcher, and bestselling author — joins Dr. Dan for a deeply personal and intellectually rich conversation about what it actually takes to become better. Drawing on his own healing journey, decades of research, and real client stories, Ryan unpacks the difference between doing more and being more — and why the leaders (and parents) who grow the most are the ones willing to go inward first.
WHAT YOU'LL LEARN
The difference between horizontal development and vertical development
Why 60% of leaders have a fixed mindset — and don't know it
How childhood emotional neglect quietly shapes adult leadership and relationship patterns
The three levels of vertical development strategies: surface, deeper, and deepest — and when to use each
Why stagnation isn't failure — it's a signal that transformation is near
How healing your inner world unlocks the leadership, parenting, and relationship outcomes you've been striving for
LEARN MORE
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December 11, 2025
Dr. Ryan Gottfredson
Becoming Better: How Vertical Development Transforms Leadership, Purpose, and Personal Growth
"Becoming better as a person, as a leader, as a parent, as a spouse ultimately rides on my ability to heal my mind, my body, and my heart."
TIMESTAMPS
07:18 – Origin story: a high school sports psychology class and the drive to become better
08:30 – Emotional neglect, healing, and writing a book for his late mother
18:04 – Horizontal vs. vertical development: adding apps vs. upgrading the operating system
23:00 – The three conditions for vertical growth: heat, colliding perspectives, elevated sensemaking
26:01 – Cheryl's story: why more degrees couldn't unlock what being-side work could
35:49 – Fixed vs. growth mindset: the research finding that surprises every leader
41:05 – The fifth gear analogy: why effective leaders learn to slow down to speed up
47:56 – Stagnation, metacognition, and a simple three-step exercise to start today
SHOW NOTES
Dr. Dan sits down with leadership researcher, author, and mindset expert Dr. Ryan Gottfredson to explore what it truly means to become better—better leaders, parents, partners, and human beings. Drawing from his groundbreaking work on vertical development, Ryan reveals why most of us are overdeveloped in “doing” and underdeveloped in “being,” and how this imbalance limits our growth, purpose, and connection in every part of life.
During this powerful and deeply human conversation with Dr. Dan, Ryan shares personal stories of emotional neglect, independence, healing, and the courageous work of rewriting one’s internal operating system. Dr. Ryan and Dr. Dan dive into the profound relationship between self-awareness, compassion, resilience, and authentic leadership and why healing isn’t a soft concept, but a neurological upgrade that changes how we respond to stress, relationships, and opportunity.
Listeners will learn the difference between horizontal development (knowledge, skills, and doing) and vertical development (mindsets, presence, and being), and why the most effective leaders elevate through intentional inner work.
LINKS & RESOURCES
Ryan Gottfredson
Website — ryangottfredson.com
Free Mindset Assessment — available at ryangottfredson.com
Stagnation Assessments — available at ryangottfredson.com
Ryan's Books
Becoming Better: The Groundbreaking Science of Personal Transformation
The Elevated Leader: Leveling Up Your Leadership Through Vertical Development
Success Mindsets: The Key to Unlocking Greater Success in Your Life, Work, and Leadership
Books Referenced
The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen R. Covey — mentioned as foundational reading from Ryan's high school sports psychology class
The Five Minute Journal — journaling practice Ryan used to begin his own vertical development
Vertical Development & Mindsets
Nick Petrie / Center for Creative Leadership — coined the term "vertical development"
Carol Dweck — fixed vs. growth mindset research
Brené Brown — shared influence on vulnerability, courage, and leadership
Healing Modalities Referenced
EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing)
Internal Family Systems (IFS)
Neurofeedback therapy
Psychedelic-assisted therapy
GUEST BIO
Ryan Gottfredson, PhD, is a leadership researcher, consultant, and Wall Street Journal and USA Today bestselling author. He is the author of Success Mindsets, The Elevated Leader, and his latest book Becoming Better: The Groundbreaking Science of Personal Transformation. Ryan is also a leadership professor at Cal State University Fullerton, where he holds an appointment in the College of Business and Economics. He specializes in helping leaders and organizations vertically develop — upgrading their inner operating systems rather than just adding skills — drawing on research in neuroscience, mindsets, and human development.
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